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Japan Mime Studio: Hiroyasu Sasaki
Mime and Butoh - an interview with Hiroyasu Sasaki
What was the mime you first studied with Hironobu Oikawa like?
Usually when you talk about pantomime you think of Chaplin’s mime, greek theatre, or Commedia dell’arte, but this was a little different. This was Étienne Decroux’s method - he taught both Oikawa-sensei and myself, as well as Jean-Louis Barrault and Marcel Marceau. His method involved dividing the body into parts. Twisting just the head for example, or the chest, or the waist, each of them separately.
Mime is different to pantomime, in that pantomime is an art done with facial expressions and gestures. But the most important foundation for Decroux-sensei’s mime is the torso. From there you have the arms, the head. That’s why facial expressions aren’t used so much. So all pantomime before this was different.
Tell us about the “flower” that appears in your practice
The flower is a surprise element. The walk starts with mime. Then suddenly you look and react, your body reacts. Then you ben to pick… Like this. But from there, you turn into a flower. This is what I learnt from Ohno-sensei. From the moment you pick it, flowers are growing everywhere - your back, your feet. And when you stand you’ve become a flower, and you walk off…
This is where traditional pantomime crosses with Butoh, with dance. Although it used to be called “modern dance” when I was a student, not Butoh. I think Tatsumi Hijikata added the word “Butoh” later on. What I liked was modern dance.
How did you first meet Kazuo Ohno?
Japan Mime Studio was started in 1960. It was started by Oikawa-sensei, who had just returned from France, and I went to study with him. Then a year or two later Iino Hall was built, and I did my first mime performance there. We performed Kafka’s “The Judgement”, and Yoshito Ohno was playing Josef K, the lead role. He raised his hands and did something a little different to the rest of us. I asked him about it and he mentioned his father was a modern dance teacher, so I got him to take me to him right away, to begin studying.
What would you say was the difference between Tatsumi Hijikata and Kazuo Ohno?
They both moved sensuously. But when watching Hijikata’s practices, he’d kind of make these hand movements that had never been made before, or be really going for it. So at first, it can’t help but be grotesque. But those who train like Hijikata did - he was beautiful, so thin, so dextrous. I’m sure it’s because he started out with ballet.
Kazuo-sensei didn’t move so much. In fact he was opposite, sometimes he’d stop and not move at all, right? That was a real plus to us actors and mime artists.
It think it was Anma that I did with Hijikata. I performed in a number of his shows. I guess Hijikata’s the same in some ways, having people who can’t move much as objects like rocks, that kind of thing. But that experience becomes really helpful. Staying still is harder than moving, it emits a presence. If you can do that, that’s quite something.
Hiroyasu Sasaki
Studied mime with Oikawa Hironobu between 1959-1965. During that time he also studied Butoh (at the time referred to as “modern dance”) for three years. Around the time, he also performed onstage with Tatsumi Hijikata’s Ankoku Butoh members. In 1965 he went to Paris to study Corporeal Mime with the world-renowned Étienne Decroux (teacher to Jean-Louis Barrault and Marcel Marceau). He also studied realism in mime through the Stanislavski system with Bella Reine.
After returning to Japan, he became the head of Japan Mime Studio, with the aim of popularising mime and fostering young mime artists in Japan. They hold 3-4 stage and studio performances a year.
Between 1993-2009 he performed mainly in France and around Europe, as well as Korea.
With 62 years of mime experience, he is now a leading figure in the Japanese mime world.
稽古場
出演 佐々木博康
稽古シーン出演 池田郁子 安藤繭子 水澤良平 久保田響介 西山陽子
撮影・編集 飯名尚人
協力 日本マイム研究所
Special thanks 佐々木美奈